a short discussion on Meaning


A navigator from Canada writes to us after reading our two articles on Genoa G8 related events. This is an excerpt from our e-mails. We accept further contibutions to the discussion. Please send your text writing a message to Rishi Giovanni Gatti.

29/7/01 9:44

Just wanted to thank you for putting Carlo's birth information on the Indy Media site. Can you tell me where you got that information from? My fellow astrologers always want to know the source so we know how accurate it is.

Thanks again
Phylis
Vancouver, Canada


29/7/01 13:03

Dear friend,
I asked personally to the Anagrafe del Comune di Roma, Ufficio Stato Civile.

r.g.g.


30/7/01 10:41

Hi again Rishi

Read your web site and I thought you did an excellent job of interperting his chart. I didn't realize there was two yods involved! I haven't worked with astrology lately so I'm a little rusty at it and it takes awhile to see things but you did a great job. I particularly like your interpertation of Pluto as our search for meaning.

I shall be sure to pass your website on to others. Thanks again.
Phylis


30/7/01 14:38

Thank you very much!

Please drop a mail to my US correspondant Mike Wolfstar at wolfstar3@aol.com and ask him to inscribe your name into his list, he runs a weekly NewsScope column and this week covered Carlo's death.

If Carlo was aware of astrology, he could have saved his life. This I can tell for sure. Let's hope that his death won't fell invain.

r.g.g


31/7/01 10:20

Hi again Rishi,

I have written to your friend Mike to get a copy of his interpretation of the events. Thanks for the address.

But I must comment on a statement in your last message. That if Carlo was aware of astrology, he could have saved his life. Do you really think he would have been more cautious if he saw the signs? I don't think so. I think your destiny is your destiny. Perhaps he wouldn't have gotten so close to the line of fire, but with all the signs in his chart, something would have happened in his life anyhow.

I don't feel that life or astrology should be about avoiding death. If we are always avoiding death, we never live. Perhaps in death, Carlo has truly found life. Before his fateful day, he was just a young Italian boy. Perhaps known as a bit of a trouble maker. But now he lives in the minds of everyone on earth. Many debates will go on about whether what he did was right or wrong, but 20 years from now, when the dust settles, he will possibly be known as a hero. Just like the students of Kent State University in the USA during the 60's. (National Guard killed three protesters on the Kent State University grounds). Malcom X was considered a radical trouble maker, and although he got carried away, he opened up the eyes of the American people.

Likewise, Carlo got the people talking. They may condemn him, but at least they are now asking what globalization is all about. And that is what dissidents like Carlo are all about. Sorry, I'm getting away from Astrology here. Let me try to get back.

So what happens if we avoid 'the bad aspects' in our charts? If they are there to denote a certain cosmic unfolding, what happens if we 'avoid' what the cosmos has dictated? It is my believe that the energy just builds and our lives end up exploding like a super nova. In Carlo's case, maybe getting maimed or killed in a senseless street fight. A life lost for nothing.

So what should we do when heavy dark aspects show up in our charts? It is my feeling that ALL things and hence, ALL aspects contain both light and dark, good and evil, positive and negative, yin and yang. In Carlo's case, his death was a very negative, bad thing that happened. But his death will also bring light to the subject of globalization. His death will be heralded as a turning point in the way these summits are held. If Carlo could come back for a day and choose to do that day all over again, do you think he would pick up that canister? I think he would do it all again, exactly as he did that day. What do you think?

When I see tons of negative energy coming up in a chart, I just say to the person, 'there is a lot of very strong (not good or bad) energy in your chart. It is up to you to choose to see the positive or negative side of what will come to pass. Just be aware that powerful stuff is coming your way. Be prepared.

Sorry, I am rambling on here and please understand, this is just my opinion on how things work. After all, that's all any of us can do is take a good guess.

Take care
Phylis


31/7/01 11:16

HALLO PHYLIS

will answer you very specifically because I think you deserve it!

Phylis Sophical wrote:

> But I must comment on a statement in your last message. That if Carlo was
> aware of astrology, he could have saved his life. Do you really think he
> would have been more cautious if he saw the signs? I don't think so. I think
> your destiny is your destiny. Perhaps he wouldn't have gotten so close to
> the line of fire, but with all the signs in his chart, something would have
> happened in his life anyhow.

Yes, fatus against free will is a struggle the very mystery of life is made of, so even in our lives of astrologer we are not able to discern them definitely, unless we become enlightened, as someone says. But I must assess that Astrology has the great mission to inspire the life of people, indicating lofty states of consciousness, to avoid traps of the past.

In Carlo's case, the very presence of South Node so close to Venus and Mercury into Aries, squared by the transiting nodes, could have forced any astrologer to tell him that the Aries struggle should be devoted to something different than violence and protest. In fact, the only low ways of Aries are like that: mere violence, "simple" throwing of stones, you know. If this is the past karma that the boy is going to re-enact unconsciously in this life, the best counselling for him is this: dear comrade, be aware, you have already lived this stuff, so please take some distance and watch it and choose to do something higher.

He was from the self-sacrificing sign of Pisces, but this is often a misunderstanding: self-sacrifice is not for any cause which exists outside the personality (anti-global and so on). The self is central here, that is a surrendering of the ego in favor of a more integrated experience of spirituality. It is not strange that the boy was involved with drugs, a mistake for spitituality. The use of violence is always bad, but here is particularly bad, for enforced karmic reasons.

Then, anybody can do as he wishes. But I insist that a more "astrologically conscious" behaviour on Giuliani's part could have saved him for committing this kind of suicide, spiritual suicide, and inducing him to find better outlets to his Aries energy.

> I don't feel that life or astrology should be about avoiding death. If we
> are always avoiding death, we never live. Perhaps in death, Carlo has truly
> found life. Before his fateful day, he was just a young Italian boy. Perhaps
> known as a bit of a trouble maker. But now he lives in the minds of everyone
> on earth. Many debates will go on about whether what he did was right or
> wrong, but 20 years from now, when the dust settles, he will possibly be
> known as a hero. Just like the students of Kent State University in the USA
> during the 60's. (National Guard killed three protesters on the Kent State
> University grounds). Melcome X was considered a radical trouble maker, and
> although he got carried away, he opened up the eyes of the American people.

Well, this depends on your understanding of your very life's meaning. If you believe in politics, which seems the case here, then you can please yourself with all the consolations you want, martyrdom, saintliness, etc... Our Christian religion has built a corporate power on the exploiting of sufference! But this it's just politics. I don't think it has some value on the spiritual quest. Take it for granted, in general.

I don't think that Giuliani's soul can appreciate how the world is looking at him now that he's dead. and there are so many millions of people that think that he was just a poor idiot who destroyed his life in the name of idiotic ideologies.

I know you are not of this kind of thinking, nor I am, but the world is large, existence is vast, MIND ITSELF is a very vast phenomenon, so how can we tell HONESTLY what is in the heads of every man in the world?

Symbols of spiritual quest are not politicians or activist. For example, take the Buddha. Can you compare the vastness of his teachings with those of a Gandhi? The Mahatma was a great man, there is no question about this, but he was a politician, not a spiritual warrior. There is no comparison possible between the two. Take the Dhammapadha. Every single word contains an ocean of wisdom. Can you please quote a sentence of the anti-global propaganda (or the pro-global propaganda!) that can resist for a single second to any sayings of the Buddha?

We must choose what use we want to do of Astrology. I use it as a means to chase the Buddha. This way, I use my awareness to watch and comment, supported by astrological symbolism, the events of the world. In a mood of "neti neti", a Buddhist techinque, a "neither this nor that" attitude towards mind values that is reputed to enhace spiritual understanding. But maybe I'm wrong and Buddha was a cheat!

> Likewise, Carlo got the people talking. They may condemn him, but at least
> they are now asking what globalization is all about. And that is what
> dissidents like Carlo are all about. Sorry, I'm getting away from Astrology
> here. Let me try to get back.
>
> So what happens if we avoid 'the bad aspects' in our charts? If they are
> there to denote a certain cosmic unfolding, what happens if we 'avoid'
> what the cosmos has dictated? It is my believe that the energy just builds
> and our lives end up exploding like a super nova. In Carlo's case, maybe
> getting maimed or killed in a senseless street fight. A life lost for
> nothing.

Well, your are right, but i did not mention the word "bad" in my article, did I? But what you say is meaningful. Let's try this: what if Carlo was not there? What could his transiting Yod have produced? Difficult to answer, I see! In fact, he was there, he fought, he died, he "became History", in the sense that marked the passing of time for the whole world, and the Yod grinned fatally upon him.

But I don't agree with you that if he could come back he would have done it the same. At least not with astrological counselling. Otherwise, what are we astrologer going to do here if we cannot even tell what karmic past can wound us?

> So what should we do when heavy dark aspects show up in our charts? It is my
> feeling that ALL things and hence, ALL aspects contain both light and dark,
> good and evil, positive and negative, yin and yang. In Carlo's case, his
> death was a very negative, bad thing that happened. But his death will also
> bring light to the subject of globalization. His death will be heralded as a
> turning point in the way these summits are held. If Carlo could come back
> for a day and choose to do that day all over again, do you think he would
> pick up that canister? I think he would do it all again, exactly as he did
> that day. What do you think?
>
> When I see tons of negative energy coming up in a chart, I just say to the
> person, 'there is a lot of very strong (not good or bad) energy in your
> chart. It is up to you to choose to see the positive or negative side of
> what will come to pass. Just be aware that powerful stuff is coming your
> way. Be prepared.

You are perfectly right here, so it seems that during your writing the letter something has changed in you.

There was a lot of energy in the Giuliani's chart, mostly karmic. More, we can say that not only his chart contributed with violence, but also his friends, his parents, his personal history. So, given the promises in the chart, with all the karma etc., there is no much of a surprise in his violent death.

But I won't let me fooled by the old ticks of priests and politicians: there is not much meaning in revolutionary thinking, in changing the world, if this does not take into account our inner personal worlds.

This is my best guess: there is much more truth in a meditator hiding in an hymalaian cave than in million of activist protesting the globalization. Both types are not fully integrated human beings, but the meditator is fighting for a much more substantial battle, that of his spiritual quest. The other people, as much as wishful thinked they can be, are just muppets in the hands of a destiny which is not truly theirs.

My letter has become a lecture!

Please pardon me for that

r.g.g.


9/8/01 11:24

Rishi, thank you so very much for taking the time to write such detailed answers. Brilliant! Absolutely Brilliant stuff!

> If this is the past karma that the boy is going to re-enact unconsciously
> in this life, the best counseling for him is this: dear comrade, be aware, you have
> already lived this stuff, so please take some distance and watch it and choose to
> do something higher.

This is a great statement. To make someone aware that they have already lived this stuff. To simply suggest that they do something higher this time around. This is what Astrology truly is about.

Thanks again and Take care.
Phylis Sophical, Vancouver, Canada


9/8/01 21:38

So, spread the Word!!! [;-)]


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